While all was quiet on the blog and social media posts, we have been working diligently behind the scenes with our monsters, and are kicking off our 2023 Gila monster breeding season!
Misty, a high-orange female Gila monster produced here in 2019, will be bred with unrelated bloodlines this year.
While every year is certainly exciting, 2023 is off the charts for us here at Goatsby’s Place! Besides the fact that our Seward-line axanthic female will be breeding for the first time, we also have one of our own Gilas produced in 2019 also breeding for the first time. We will have a total of four females breeding this year, and three males to mate them with (optimally a 1:1 ratio is preferred).
Winifred is our Seward-line axanthic female Gila monster.
As the season starts anew, it’s a time to reflect on past year’s successes and failures. I re-read my notes and chat with other breeders and try to see how we can do things better. This year’s focus is nesting and achieving a higher hatch rate. We’re coming up with a new nesting box and will be sure to share that here once we have the design worked out. We’d also like to get more proficient with the ultrasound and be able to time ovulation and oviposition with greater accuracy this year.
A sight we hope to see mid-April!We monitor growing follicles and testes on our Gila monster by ultrasound. This helps us to keep an eye on reproductive development and when the highest chance of successful pairings are. Male testes also change throughout the year and need to be monitored.
Besides having the fortune to live with Gila monsters, its both profound and humbling to enter each year with these amazing reptiles and learn more about them. Having produced Gilas each year just feeds my love for them, and I’m sure this year will be no exception!
Gilas just wanna have fun!
Stay tuned for some exciting things happening at Goatsby’s Place this year, new videos, lots of photos, and of course more Gila monsters! If you’re interested in getting on our rapidly growing waitlist please email us today. And if you have any questions or there is something you’d like to see on an upcoming video please let us know. Thanks for stoping by!
Hey Monster Squad! It’s been way too long since I last sent an update out which is disappointing as so much has happened since the last post. As with all Gila monster breeding seasons, this one was full of surprises and a lot of lessons to be learned.
Caught in the act.Well, we know what this is..Locked up at night.
First, during pairing and copulating we attempted a 1.1 ratio for breeding pairs which we hoped would increase success. Two of our previously bred females were seen copulating at least five times, but the new girl we got last year was only seen once. Eggs seem to be maturing well as monitored on ultrasound, except for the new female which only had two eggs (the other two females had greater than five eggs from what we could see). By the time egg laying came about in June this is where things change and deficiencies in our program were found. our two long-term females produce 13 eggs between the two of them, and the new girl produced two.
Egg forming from follicle as seen by ultrasound. Egg at a later stage, the shell now visible on ultrasound. Momma monster made a nest for her tightly buried eggs and guarded the nest for over two weeks!
Unfortunately only four of the 15 eggs survived of the whole group to date. One was actually eaten by it mother! This was a severe disappointment but valuable lessons were learned. First, the new female was under condition and not ready to be bred but she had enough weight and we thought she would be ready, she was not. Second our egg-laying protocol needs to be revised as it appears our girls are not comfortable laying eggs in their current egg boxes, which at this time are the entire cage turned into an egg laying nest with dark tint over the glass to provide privacy. Unfortunately this is not enough and we are going to try something entirely new next year fingers crossed!
Inside the nest above, six Gila monster eggs!Bad eggs and good eggs, wish I had Willy Wonka’s machine to save some time.
As we approach the end of October we have four eggs still in the running. Four out of 15 is not a good ratio but some success is certainly better than none at all! It’s interesting that most eggs go bad within the first 30 days of laying, which says to me that our incubation protocol technique is working. Of course mid and late term and losses have happened but generally most eggs even fertile they are doomed will go bad within the first 30 days. These days I’m checking the incubator daily opening to egg boxes for fresh air as the humidity and temperature continue to remain stable throughout the week incubation period. We are super excited for the birth of our baby Gila monsters – each time I truly feel like a kid during Christmas opening the big gift center left under the tree! As soon as the babies are out we will post pictures and contact those on the waitlist in the order that they joined (Allen you’re up first!).
Late-season candling of a viable egg showing nicely growing veins.
So as we wrap up our 2022 Gila monster breeding season and get our monsters ready for the Big Chill (hibernation, not the movie), we look forward to an amazing 2023 breeding season. One of our 2019 females produced here is growing follicles as shown by ultrasound and will be attempted to be bred next year. We are also very excited to have our axanthic Gila monster Winnie up to condition and ready to breed next year. This is a very, very exciting project for us as few of these morph are being bred throughout the world. We are also excited to put into motion the lessons we learned in this and past seasons to improve our success and to see more amazing baby Gila monsters born into this world, because what world isn’t better with more Gila monsters in it?
Winnie, our axthanic Gila, looking to be in good condition
This photo shows offspring produced here over a three-year period; 2019-2020-2021. They really start to chunk out after the second year, but still have some growing to do!
The 2021 baby Gila monsters are all out and settling in here at Goatsby’s Place! We are very proud of our beautiful baby monsters, and feel blessed to have been successful again this year. While most are spoken for, we may have a few available for new homes. Please email us if interested, or to get on the list for 2022.
So, almost after all hope was lost on Day 153 the first Gila monster egg pipped from its leathery shell! Egg 02 at first cut a small slit and then a few more and over the next two days began to emerge from the egg. At first the baby Gila stuck its nose out, then it’s head, then half its body, and finally the entire body. It appears that hatching is a labor-intensive process as there are long pauses between progressive stages and also seems to be a good way of ensuring all the contents of the egg are consumed before leaving the egg. Over the ensuing days this process was (and currently is for two more lizards) repeated over and over, with Gilas emerging from their shell about two or so full days from pip to full emergence. Once the contents are completely devoured the neonate Gila monster leaves its shell and begins to wander the egg box. I witnessed one Gila that was out actually eating the egg yolk of another just coming out of its shell! Greedy bastard.
Once fully emerged and climbing around, the little monsters are pulled from the egg box, photographed, weighed, and set up solo in an 18 quart Sterelite box with paper towels as bedding and small water dish. The paper towel bedding serves as a clean substrate while the umbilical wound heals and the first few meals are eaten and passed through to make sure everything is going well. I will attempt the first feeding next week after the yolk has been fully digested and look forward to raising the babies from there!
I will be posting updates on the neonates growth, as well as some thoughts and insights on my first season captive breeding Gila monsters. Some reviews of the equipment I used is also likely in order as these items played an important role in my success. Whew, what an amazing season! The process has been fun, though frustrating and worrisome at times, and I look forward to greater success next year with these amazing reptiles!
Patience. Patience is what those in the know say. Sure, I am checking the incubator at least ten times a day for any action and patience is not my virtue, but I am old enough to know when to listen. A couple a the eggs dented in over two weeks ago, the two others are starting to dimple (not dent) and in all honesty I would be surprised if any of them hatch at this point. If they do not hatch my biggest concern is figuring out where my failure was. Is it the incubator? No, the Grumbach’s are renowned for their reliability. Is it the S.I.M. egg container? No, these have been used successfully with Gila monsters before. My temperature, though low, should not be the issue and my humidity is spot on, so it shouldn’t be that. We just started having cold fronts move through and temps have fallen so that may have a slight play into it (I have ordered a space heater to remedy this issue). At this point my guess is that since the fan in the Grumbach is unplugged that there may not be enough airflow which may be an issue, or the fact that the Pangea Hatch medium has started to grow mold adds to this theory. I do open the incubator to allow fresh air to enter but it may not be enough. Whatever the case, I will hold on hope until the last egg turns yellow and starts to sweat. If they all die I will carefully review my protocols and notes and seek the advise of successful breeders to plan for a better year next season!
On another note, I have stopped feeding my adults and am turning off the lights and under-cage heating in preparation of hibernation, which will begin after Thanksgiving. I have an old refrigerator that is hooked up to a Ranco thermostat for the cool down. Would be great if I could cool them in their cages but we do not see steady enough low temps here in northern Florida to ensure the Gila will reach and stay at 53°F for the three months of brumation.
Gila monster 06, formerly known as Joy, was thought to be a female and was the one that was sick. Now that Joy is better, I wanted to finally determine confirm her sex (though based on head size I guessed female). My intention was not to breed, only to watch the reaction and once I put Joy in the cage with a known male (one from the group she came from) Joy went right into battle mode and started wrestling with the other male. There went that theory. The girl formerly known as Joy is now a boy named Floyd. No more gender dysphoria. You be you, Floyd.
My first encounter with this behavior was many years ago when my best friend saw the Gila monster in its cage upside down and unmoving. He called in a panic and said that my pink lizard (his reference of Gila monsters to this day) was dead. Of course when the cage was opened the lizard sprang to life and was quite aggressive upon examination. Now that I have a group of Gilas, I see this behavior often. Above are a few examples of what this looks like.
I wonder why Gila monsters do this. Is it to thermoregulate different parts of the body? Does it aid in digestion? Maybe its like having restless leg syndrome and they just can’t get comfortable! This behavior is bizarre, but I must say that Gila monsters are quite interesting and they do some funny things I have not seen other reptiles do. I think a book on captive behavior alone would be a fun read!
After keeping Gila monsters for over twenty years and having a lifelong fascination with these amazing reptiles, my first earnest attempt at breeding them has been quite fun. Don’t know how successful at this point, but it’s the journey and not the destination in my case (though seeing baby monsters pip out of the egg would be a dream come true for me).
When studying up on breeding all these years there were so many questions I had. Can you tell a male from female by head shape or appearance? Why do you need a group or colony to breed? What does male combat look like versus male to female interactions? Is it better to keep them singly or in a group when attempting to breed? So far, I have learned a better understanding of these questions and will make an attempt at answering them to the best of my knowledge at this point.
To establish a base point, and long before this breeding season, I have collected as many books on Heloderma as I could (not to mention art, toys, and other chachkies). In relation to breeding, a few books have been the guiding light to my program. First and foremost is Dr. Mark Seward’s Gila Monster Propagation. Despite being one hell of a nice guy that has answered my random emails and questions for over 20 years, his book remains to be the most thorough and introspective writing on the subject. The focus on applying the natural process of wild Gilas to captive breeding is the obvious key to success, and the one I am closely following now. Amazingly, a PDF version of the book is free on Mark Seward’s website here. Of course I’m a dork and have the first and second edition in print:) The other book I am using is a European text, called Beaded Lizards & Gila Monsters Captive Care & Husbandry by Bernd Eidenmüller and Manfred Reisinger. This is another great book that offers insight and some different perspectives into breeding and maintaining Heloderma. I’ve never heard of a Grumbach incubator before reading this book, and liked what I read about the stability of the incubator so I picked up a used one off eBay (Compact S84), tested, modified, and tested again to get the temperature and humidity right. Fingers crossed I get viable eggs to go in this wonderful machine! The other book I am utilizing right now is the venerable Biology of Gila Monsters and Beaded Lizards by Daniel Beck. There is not a specific focus on captive breeding but it does provide invaluable reference to the natural biology and behavior of Gila monsters that can be applied to breeding and has given me a lot of thought on what has occurred so far.
After acquiring the group of adult Gilas, and having the two existing adult Gilas properly cooled to a chilly 53F in a modified wine cooler from Thanksgiving to March 1st, I was good to go. Unfortunately one of my females had some blood in her stool and was ultimately brought to a vet and has been receiving medicine (this experience will be another post soon), she is out of breeding for the year to ensure she is healthy. Always, the well-being of the animal must be first priority! I jumped the gun and started putting my Gila together about the middle of March (April 1st is the recommendation from M. Seward, or 4-6 weeks out of hibernation) to see who was who. I had a good guess on how the sexing game would play out as the head shape on the animals I have were apparent side by side. Two were questionable, but my guesses were accurate. I started by rotating the new Gilas with my 21-year-old, known sexed by ultrasound male and recording the interactions. I started with the Gila that was voted most likely to be a girl with my male. Then paired the most likely male to my male, again recording the interaction. One of those interactions was posted here, and I will put up a female to male video up soon.
Boys will be boys….
Female on the left, male on the right. Can you tell the difference?
The interactions between the sexes is stark to say the least. Males, when faced with another male, reacted almost immediately and the ritualized male combat started. I can see where, when faced with no path of escape, the fighting can escalate to a vicious brawl and continue to the exclusion of breeding. It is intense! After safely removing the “losing” male, or the one that leaves the cage, the remaining male roams around huffing and puffing ensuring the competition has left. Interestingly, both males, the winner and the loser in their respective cages, start raising the tails and marking their territory with their cloaca. At one point, the winner had his hemipenis everted and he rubbed it about his cage. I then introduced a female into the cage. The interaction between males and females in my group could best be described as gentle, even romantic (in lizard terms) as both sexes start licking the air madly, picking up on the scent of the opposite sex. They then approached each other and continued tasting the air and each other with their tongues. It is a much slower pace than the instant male to male interaction, and eventually the male starts to chase the female around the cage in an attempt to copulate.
The pair has settled in nicely. Again, can you tell which is which?
No Means No!
Even in the animal kingdom, no means no. In my case, the females that have been introduced into male cages have been, to my observations, not ready or unwilling to copulate. Did I introduce them to early? Have I somehow missed the short window that the female produces mature follicles? Time will tell at this point as I have not witnessed copulation in my group. The females, when, um, mounted by the males either run away and hiss or bite the male and then run away. But, after the initial night’s excitement the Gilas seem to pair up and are close to each other when resting or lounging around the terrarium. The Gilas are more active at night, and perhaps this is when copulation is taking place but as of right now I cannot know for sure. I did break out my old night vision monocular the other night to observe the pairs but saw more of the same; the females running from the males when approached. I kept the pairs together for a week and have rotated the females to different male’s cages in hopes there will be some compatibility between the pairs.
Q & A
So, I asked a few questions above that I will attempt to provide answers for based on my interpretation of what has happened with my Gilas. Please keep in mind that this is still new to me and I am answering on observations made in my group of Gilas. If different revelations or findings occur, these answers will be updated.
Q – Can you tell a male from female by head shape or appearance?
A – Yes and no. When I had only two Gilas and no idea of their sex there was no known commodity for each and no basis for comparison. If you buy or own a single Gila and do not have a friend with a colony or some known sexed animals I do not think an accurate determination could be made. When I bought the colony, it still wasn’t apparent who was who, but after a few days and taking measurements I made an uneducated guess based on this factor. By sheer luck I turned out to be right but still had to put them together to be 100% sure. Check the photo above and see if you can tell the difference. Not too easy, huh? I plan on doing other comparisons of the sexes on a future post.
Q – Why do you need a group or colony to breed?
A – While I cannot definitively answer this, it appears that the social structure of Gila monsters lends itself well to groups than single pairs. I am sure offspring can be had from just one pair, but I do not know how successful breeding would be overall. I do not think if I had just one pair at this point my chances would be that good. All successful Gila breeders I have spoken with recommend group breeding.
Q- What does male combat look like versus male to female interactions?
A – Male combat is a contest where the fighters engage each other head on, and aggressively. Male to female is overall a more gentle approach. Check out my YouTube channel to see the different interactions between my lizards.
Q – Is it better to keep them singly or in a group when attempting to breed?
A – From a maintenance standpoint, I believe keeping Gilas separately is the best way to go. If the one Gila that is sick was contagious, she may have spread it to the colony and my breeding hopes would have been dashed for the year and some of the Gilas may have died. Not to mention the vet bills increasing exponentially! Also, if a lizard has an issue or isn’t eating it is easier to tell when housed singly. For my breeding program I like to see how each Heloderma suspectum reacts to one another.
I will keep updating this blog as time goes, and feel free to email me with any questions or comments especially if you have successfully bred Gila monsters and can give some guidance.
Patience. Patience is what those in the know say. Sure, I am checking the incubator at least ten times a day for any action and patience is not my virtue, but I am old enough to know when to listen. A couple a the eggs dented in over two weeks ago, the two others are starting to dimple (not dent) and in all honesty I would be surprised if any of them hatch at this point. If they do not hatch my biggest concern is figuring out where my failure was. Is it the incubator? No, the Grumbach’s are renowned for their reliability. Is it the S.I.M. egg container? No, these have been used successfully with Gila monsters before. My temperature, though low, should not be the issue and my humidity is spot on, so it shouldn’t be that. We just started having cold fronts move through and temps have fallen so that may have a slight play into it (I have ordered a space heater to remedy this issue). At this point my guess is that since the fan in the Grumbach is unplugged that there may not be enough airflow which may be an issue, or the fact that the Pangea Hatch medium has started to grow mold adds to this theory. I do open the incubator to allow fresh air to enter but it may not be enough. Whatever the case, I will hold on hope until the last egg turns yellow and starts to sweat. If they all die I will carefully review my protocols and notes and seek the advise of successful breeders to plan for a better year next season!
Goatsby's Place 